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Max Lucado's Endorsement of Jen Hatmaker: What it Means and Why it Matters

1/13/2020

159 Comments

 
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In the past couple of years, Jen Hatmaker has received quite a bit of attention, not only as a New York Times best-selling author and social media sensation, but also as one of the most high-profile Christians to affirm same-sex marriage. This ignited a controversy that lit up the blogosphere with equal parts disagreement and praise. Despite being given the boot by Southern Baptist retailer LifeWay, her following has slowly gained steam, establishing her as a successful podcaster (her podcast, For The Love! is regularly found in the iTunes top 10 list of its category) and a persuasive voice in the progressive Christian movement. 
 
Her shift on same-sex marriage isn’t the only indicator that her beliefs about Christianity have changed. Since its launch in 2017, Hatmaker’s podcast has been a veritable “who’s who” of progressive Christian leaders such as Sarah Bessey, Rachel Held Evans, Pete Enns, Nadia Bolz-Weber, Richard Rohr, Jeff Chu, Mike McHargue (“Science Mike”), Barbara Brown Taylor, Austin Channing Brown, Lisa Sharon Harper, Rachel Hollis, and Glennon Doyle. As I’ve written about previously, progressive Christianity affirms a different gospel. 


Hatmaker has ushered in 2020 with a new podcast series called For the Love of Faith Icons, in which she will interview “our most beloved faith leaders as we ask our deepest questions and hear where they’ve found peace and strength to endure.” Hatmaker notes that each of these leaders “show us that our faith can expand, evolve, and be inclusive while never losing the heart of the Gospel and our belief in a God who is full of grace and mercy.”
 
The first leader Hatmaker invited was Evangelical pastor Max Lucado, a best-selling author whose books have sold over 100 million copies worldwide. Beloved by young and old alike, there is almost no conservative or evangelical community that hasn’t been impacted by Lucado’s work. 
 
Lucado began the episode by singing Hatmaker’s praises, indicating that he is a fan of her work and saying, “I think so highly of you. You energize me, to listen to your podcast…you make it so easy and delightful, and yet profound at the same time.” 
 
While Lucado implied that he doesn’t agree with everything Hatmaker teaches, nevertheless he took several opportunities to make the point that unity is paramount. He said, “And so you and I, when it comes to the table, whether literally the Lord’s table, or figuratively the community table, you’re my sister, and I’m your brother.”
 
He alluded to the idea that it’s important to maintain unity with people who claim the name of Christ as long as they affirm the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. “I think I can find fellowship with Richard Rohr, right?...Even though we come from two entirely different worlds.” This is a troublesome statement because of what Richard Rohr teaches.


The Rohr Factor 
 
Richard Rohr is a Franciscan Friar whom Jen Hatmaker considers to be a spiritual father and faith hero. On a recent episode of her podcast, she praised him as “one of our best teachers, hands down.” She promoted his book, “Universal Christ,” and noted that she has followed him for years and has quoted him in several of her books. 
 
Richard Rohr believes Jesus died, was buried, and was resurrected. However, Rohr’s views on Jesus, the Bible, and the cross are unorthodox. He separates Jesus and Christ into two separate entities, with Jesus being a “model and exemplar” of the human and divine united in one human body. And in Rohr’s view, Christ is a cosmic reality that is found “whenever the material and the divine co-exist—which is always and everywhere.” 
 
Rohr also believes that all religions share the same core truth and are all paths to truth (perennialism). He denies original sin, the atonement, the exclusivity of Christianity, an orthodox understanding of heaven and hell, and the literal second coming of Christ. He rejects the idea that the entire Bible is the Word of God and encourages readers to disagree with or omit the things they believe are wrong. (He teaches this is what Jesus did.) Hatmaker has brought Rohr’s false gospel to over 700,000 followers on Facebook, and countless more through her books and podcast.
​

Building Bridges
 
With the most recent guest of Hatmaker’s new podcast series being Andy Stanley, and based on a recent Facebook post, it seems she is trying to bridge the divide between Evangelicals and progressives. On first blush, this could seem like a good thing, because unity is a consistent theme throughout the New Testament. It’s the very thing Jesus prayed for in John 17:22, and what Paul sought to actualize among the first century believers. But is this type of unity biblical, or does the Bible actually warn against being united with everyone who considers themselves to be Christian? 

The Apostle Paul taught the Christians in Ephesus to “make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.” (Eph. 4:3). However, he goes on to say we have “one faith” (4:5). So, this is a unity based on our common faith, not separate from it. It’s not unity for the sake of unity. 
 
His comments on unity were actually followed by specific instructions for Christians to reject their old way of life and to pursue holiness and Christlike compassion. Paul warns the readers to avoid even a hint of sexual immorality or greed. He advises them not to partner with anyone who is openly disobedient to Christ but instead to live as children of the light. So, according to Paul, Christian unity can only exist within the framework of God’s holiness.*
 
 
Unity with False Teachers? 
    
The Jesus who prayed for unity among believers in John 17 is the same Jesus who writes a letter to the church of Thyatira in Revelation 2:18-28. He reprimands them for tolerating a self-professed prophetess who led God’s people into the practice of sexual immorality. He didn’t command them to remain in unity with her (even though she identified herself as a Christian), but actually rebuked them for tolerating her. 
 
In his epistle, Jude had no interest in keeping unity with false teachers, but instead encouraged the church to identify and remove them. He warned of ungodly people who had crept into the church unnoticed and had turned God’s grace into a license for immorality. He pronounced “woe” on them, and he warned believers to persevere in their faith. 
 
In Titus 1:9, Christian leaders especially are tasked with guarding the church. “[An elder] must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.” This is followed by an astonishingly pointed remark: “They must be silenced.” 
 
Nowhere in the Bible is it acceptable for a church leader to turn a blind eye to a false teacher or embrace that false teacher in unity. In fact, Paul took it a step further and named names. He specifically mentioned Alexander, Hymenaeus, and Philetus, who had left the faith of other Christians “overthrown” and “shipwrecked.” (2 Timothy 2:17-18; 1 Timothy 1:19-20)  
 

Causing Division? 
 
We live in a culture of tolerance where words like “inclusion” and “affirmation” have become non-negotiable tenets. Thus, it can be tempting to view any display of disunity as divisive.  
 
But we would do good to remember that the Bible places the blame for divisions on the ones bringing in the false doctrine, not on those who call it out. Paul writes in Romans 16:17: “I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.” Notice that it was the false teachers who Paul criticizes for being divisive, not the believers.
 
But we are not encountering anything new. Every generation of Christians has been tasked with the command to “contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3). 
 
In a recent briefing, Al Mohler noted that when we look at the history of the mainline denominations being lost to liberal theology, it wasn’t because the liberals outnumbered everyone else. Rather, “In almost every case it’s the muddy middle that ends up ensuring the liberal future of the church, because those moderates are unwilling to draw clear doctrinal and moral boundaries and to make them stick. They are far more concerned with holding the denomination, the institution, or the congregation together than they are with keeping a very clear commitment to the historic Christian faith and to its central doctrines and moral teachings.”


It's our Turn
 
Much like the liberals who began working their way through the mainline denominations in the early 20th century, progressive Christianity is infiltrating and swallowing up the Evangelical church. If we’ve learned anything from church history, now is the time to address it. It’s not time to appear on their podcasts with the vague hope of establishing unity. 
 
Jesus compared false prophets to wolves in Matthew 7:15. Can you imagine a shepherd trying to “build a bridge” or “sit at the same table” with a wolf? When a wolf comes after the sheep, the shepherd has one job. Protect the sheep. Not the wolf. 
 
We don’t get a pass because our current cultural climate would label us as disruptive or unloving. It’s because of our love for Jesus and out of protection for his bride that we must find the courage to do what is right. 
 
It’s possible that Max Lucado is unaware of how unorthodox the teachings of Jen Hatmaker and Richard Rohr are. I pray that is the case. But Christian leaders cannot afford to brush aside the danger of these unbiblical alliances under the guise of promoting unity. The Bible simply doesn’t give them that option.

The gospel is worth fighting for. The church is worth protecting. It’s this generation’s turn to do the hard things, and I pray God will give our Christian leaders the courage and unflinching loyalty to the sufficiency and authority of the Scriptures not only to discern the deceptions, but also to speak God’s truth clearly to those who are being misled. 
 
After all, “What fellowship has light with darkness?” 



* God’s holiness means he cannot be in unity with sin. This is bad news for us because we are all sinners. But the heart of the gospel is that Christ died in our place, taking the punishment for our sin upon himself. He defeated the power of sin and death so that we could be brought into unity with God. This doesn’t mean we never sin anymore, but that we pursue holiness because God is holy (1 Peter 1:16). Thus, as we acknowledge and repent of our own sin, we are continually transformed by the renewing of our minds which makes us able to discern God’s will (Romans 12:2)
159 Comments
Elma link
1/13/2020 05:06:16 pm

You nailed it! Thank you.

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Cathy Flores
1/14/2020 06:05:22 pm

I agree with most of your content. However, I think it would be wise and even helpful if you posted or blogged about a conversation with Max Lucado. From what you said toward the end of your blog, it sounds like you’re not sure whether or not he understands Hatmaker‘s stance. And because most of your blog is written about him teaming/supporting or sharing the stage with Hatmaker, leads the rest of us to now view him in the camp of false teachers.

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Glenda
1/14/2020 07:19:39 pm

I would agree. This is frustrating. He in no way endorsed Jen Hatmaker in their discussion. He said repeatedly that we as Christians need to meet at the table of the Lord and the table of the community and search scripture together. To then let the Holy Spirit work. Makes me SO sad his name is getting drug thru the mud .. this article was shared 27 times on Facebook. Tragic. How this must grieve the Lord !

Beth
1/15/2020 07:51:29 pm

I agree. It is best to represent the whole situation/person and also not to assume anything. Do we seek to judge others when we did not clearly hear of someone’s opinion or stance? Be careful to not place judgment on others.

Emily link
1/16/2020 07:04:24 am

In this day in age, when there are so many wolves within the Church, it seems only wise of Max Lucado to have done his due diligence in researching Jen Hatmaker before agreeing to be interviewed by her IF he wasn't familiar with her background.

The Church needs to hear boldly from leaders, so lay people know where they stand. Lucado simply saying that he may not agree on everything but I agree we need unity is so incredibly vague. Does he agree that we need to be unified with progressive "christians?" Does he agree that unity should include women holding a pastoral role? (Given his lamenting of John MacArthur's "go home" comment to Beth Moore, one might think he does). Does he believe we should have unity with the likes of Richard Rohr even though Rohr promotes a New Age Jesus? Surely Lucado had some idea when he said they come from two different worlds.

Lucado is a beloved author with people watching to see how he responds. It is NOT okay for him to poetically tip-toe around topics when he could have boldly spoken Truth. The conversation between Lucado and Hatmaker speaks for itself.

Richard Statham
1/16/2020 08:08:41 am

Max Lucado is responsible to know the teaching of anyone he publicly endorses. If he did not know, he is now responsible to issue a retraction. Nobody gets a pass on this just because they are a famous and beloved writer. Paul did not exclude himself in Galatians 1:8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed." That is strong language. It's very serious. Max Lucado has a large following and can influence many people. It seems some who have commented on this blog have been led astray. This is a very timely article. Thank you for having the courage to say the unpopular.

Mike
1/16/2020 10:54:06 am

I would gently say to Glenda that when a well-known person participates with a false teacher, the very participation is -- at least to some degree -- an affirmation of agreement with the false teacher.
I agree with Emily and Richard that anyone with the following of Max Lucado needs to be careful about what message he sends through associations. I would hope he would have private conversations with Jenn Hatmaker, challenge her as a brother in Christ. But a public media appearance essentially validates Hatmaker's stance . . . unless he clearly an unambiguously says, "We disagree when it comes to same-sex marriage -- and it is not an unimportant disagreement."

Dawn Tipps
1/18/2020 10:46:04 pm

I’m sure if he watches her podcasts he understands her stance. Lucado is wrong and has lost my support.

Michele
1/20/2020 12:09:07 pm

I agree. Even though I am a strong conservative, this feels like gossip about Max Lucado without him being able to give his thoughts and point of view about it. Please do so immediately and give us the interview.

Jennifer Bennett
1/21/2020 09:08:36 am

Max said himself that he is a fig fan of her podcast. He is very familiar with her unbiblical stance toward sexual sin.

Bonnie
4/28/2020 07:03:51 pm

Good word sister!
It makes me so sad that biblical leaders we trusted in the past have gone off the rails of truth and are now accepting false teachers instead of exposing them.
We need to keep these brothers and sisters in prayer. Makes me want to dive deeper into The Word!
Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. Hebrews 2:1

Parcel Man
7/6/2020 03:05:30 am

I'm not crazy about Max Lucado nor am I crazy about Andy Stanley

Tim
5/19/2021 12:23:38 am

Agreed! Lax knows exactly what he is doing . He doesn’t get a pass for not recognizing a wolf or compromiser

He’s held to the highest of standards

He’s an old man and is beyond excuse of that of a young Timothy

It’s obvious the guy enjoys the popularity of celebrating someone with a big audience

No different from a Ravi Zacharias that called Joyce Meyer a great teacher

They are fleecers of the flock smooth controls men seeking their own popularity snd bigger pocket books

They deserve the greatest of rebukes

No gray area here at all

Cate Tuten
7/26/2021 10:46:59 pm

I am one of those who shared this on FB and for a reason. Progressive Christianity is not Christianity and we must expose it for what it is and expose those who support it. Max Lucado is stepping way out of bounds by endorsing Jen Hatmaker and her guru in any fashion. She is preaching a false gospel! That is what grieves Christ.

Tim
11/16/2021 10:09:16 am

Max Lucado regardless if he had false doctrine is to be labeled with the false teachers and viewed as receiving the same rebuke and same judgment!

This fact of guilt by association is clearly written in 2 John!

For even if all you do is give only Godspeed it is judged as if you committed the same sin

It’s serious ! Especially teachers !

What’s worse than a wolf ??!!

Answer: A teacher that leads you to them!!!

Spiritual Pimps !

Patricia
3/5/2022 08:40:11 am

Totally agree with you
Cathy Flores.
I stop reading Jen Hatmaker books when she came out. I pray
Max Lucado not with her.
I hate to burn his books.
I was totally sick on Jen Hatmaker

Paul link
1/18/2020 05:38:26 pm

I would also keep a close eye as to what Al Mohler, some very questionable comments and associations...

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Leanna Roe
1/22/2020 02:17:03 pm

I would like to hear from Max on what exactly he was trying to communicate by being on her podcast. People are putting their own spin on what he said...I would like to hear from him what he meant. We don't know his heart and to make judgments about what he is or what he believes is unfair. I hope he will speak to this soon!

Tessa
2/8/2020 07:14:47 pm

Paul, a very cryptic comment. My understanding of Al Mohler is he is pretty conservative. Is there something specific you have a concern about? If so, please be specific.Otherwise you cast a shadow without a specific claim, and that is harmful to everyone

Mark R
1/25/2021 02:59:53 pm

This comment is for Tessa. I would check out Capstone Report, which has a lot of information on how Dr. Mohler publicly says one thing (now in an attempt to become the next Southern Baptist Convention President) while doing something totally different. And none of what Capstone says has been successfully refuted.

Barbara
2/1/2021 05:01:43 pm

Guest speakers like Robert Morrison, Jen Hatmaker, William P. Young (Talking about The Shack), the Happy Atheist being interviewed during worship service were a few of the reasons why I left Oak Hills Church (Max Lucado's). I never heard repentance once being preached.

Lionel
1/24/2020 06:45:51 am

If Richard Rohr is a false teacher or false prophet, so is St Francis, then. Would you say so? After all, Francis actually sat at the table of a « wolf » and talked to him and loved him in a Christlike way. And I don’t even talk about the mythical (?) wolf of Gubbio, mind you.
Your way of interpreting the Bible is YOUR way, and only YOUR way, nothing else. It is definitely not THE way.
YOUR christianity is so immature. Hopefully, some day you will grow up and out of your childish way of reading scriptures.

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Josh
1/24/2020 09:57:41 am

Lionel, can you lay out for us what an ADULT way of reading Scripture looks like? Are you also saying that two opposite interpretations of a passage from the Bible can be true at the same time?

David Davis
1/28/2020 05:19:23 pm

You really need to read the scriptures. We do not base interpretation of scripture on anything other than Scripture. We are warned not to fellowship with the wolves in the flock, told not to be partakes in others false doctrine, and that light and dark cannot coexist in the Church. It is not immature to stay clear of damnable theology And this my dear friend is one of those doctrines.

Alan
4/26/2020 04:29:43 pm

It would seem evident that Lionel is a follower of Rohr, and this article touched a nerve. For him to come here in attack mode, with no backing of his claims, there is really no point it giving him further thought.

Lionel, if you would like to enlighten us, please state your case.

Val
10/4/2020 02:14:57 am

Thank you Lionel. I agree with your viewpoint.

Kellie
11/13/2021 06:43:33 am

She sure did!!!

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Eric Brown
1/13/2020 05:23:13 pm

I have come to look forward to your blogs, and particularly your strong stand against the evils of progressive Christianity. And make no mistake, there is evil in it, characterized by a shift from objective truth to secular feel-good-ism, and away from the relational truth of humankind's sin and God's provision of redemption through Jesus' atonement on the cross. Thank you for your diligence in staying on top of this unfortunate societal trend. You fill a vital spiritual need in this era of spiritual warfare.

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Jeminie Cricket
1/18/2020 05:16:48 pm

This is the very reason I don't follow big name preachers. We as Christian's are to be like the Berians, checking scripture for what is said by man to see if it in fact TRUTH as defined by God's Word. The Holy Spirit is the only One who has total authority to teach All Truth. I am skeptical of most in the limelight of "Christianity". That's not to say all are teaching falsehood. It is clear in Scripture that we are to be able to handle The Word of God. 2 Timothy 2:15

Berean Study Bible
"Make every effort to present yourself approved to God, an unashamed workman who accurately handles the word of truth"


People say we should not judge, but scripture says in Matthew 7:15-20

"
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them."

So yes, we are to really judge whom we follow. We however are not to judge with the Judgement of God whether they are true believers or not. We are to be cautious and yes judge whom we let lead us. I am not following any of these people mentioned in this article, I am following Christ as best I can knowing g it is by His Grace I will one day be with Him in Eternity, beholding His Wonderful presence. Stop following others, follow Christ and His Word. That will solve most of this problem of teaching error very quickly.

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Sharon Russell link
2/7/2020 02:02:16 pm

I agree. We need to know the word of God, line upon line, precept upon precept. That's why I study Precept Bible studies so I learn what the whole word of God say.
There are so many scriptures regarding false teachers and their teaching that even the elect are persuaded away from the gospel. This is definitely happening now and has happened in the past. We as believers need to stand firm and speak the truth in love, so that maybe some may be persuaded back to the truth of the gospel.

John Rhyner
4/1/2020 04:35:49 am

Amen!!!

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Peter Snyder
1/13/2020 05:24:07 pm

Thank you for your faithful words. You pointed to Jesus' prayer for unity in John 17. There, as I'm sure you know, he said, "Sanctify them by the truth. Your word is truth." We can't be sanctified - brought to faith, kept in faith, grown in faith - without the unadulterated truth.

It's in complete conformity with the age in which we live for certain Christians to "emphasize our unity" and pretend - or actually believe! - that disagreement on the Word of truth is more like disagreement on what toppings to put on your pizza rather than on whether or not to ingest a deadly poison. While I can certainly appreciate the desire for unity - I find myself longing for it more and more the longer I live on this earth - you're not united and going the same direction when you're strapped into different vehicles with drivers who have opposite destinations in mind.

You also mentioned Jude. I've often thought of these words near the end of his letter as I think of my own walk of faith and interacting with those I serve as pastor: "Keep yourselves in God’s love as you continue to wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, which results in eternal life. Show mercy to those who are wavering. Save others by snatching them out of the fire. Show mercy to still others with fear, hating even the clothing that is stained by the flesh."

Thanks again! Keep up the faithful work!

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Jenny
1/16/2020 07:56:06 pm

Yes! Well said. I, too, yearn for unity in The Body! I pray for it. But unity can not mean compromising the Word of God.

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Dawn Tipps
1/18/2020 10:48:08 pm

I agree

RebeccaLynn
1/13/2020 05:30:01 pm

My goodness this was hard to read-- not because it's not absolutely true but because it hits so close to my heart. We recently left our longtime church home for reasons almost identical to what's transpired here. What is worse, is that it transpired not during one podcast but three, involving three separate pastors from our church. When brought to their attention it was disregarded and our leaving was considered a "blessed subtraction." It hurts my heart so much to see such a blindness in our leadership. They need our prayers! But also, these things need to be brought to the light because evil loves the darkness and is counting on a timid response from believers-- or none at all. We are called to have unity in Spirit -- and that Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. Thank you so much for speaking truth in a loving and yet bold way.

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andy traub
1/15/2020 09:19:33 am

"blessed subtraction" ? What a sad phrase. Sorry you were labeled that way.

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Mark R
1/25/2021 03:03:50 pm

I've heard the phrase before. Today it goes under a different title: the person who left (or was forced out -- as in my case) "didn't 'catch the vision' of what our church was doing".

T. R. Noble link
11/15/2021 04:33:44 pm

Alisa and Teasi recently shared their story of spiritual abuse, especially Teasi. I think you would really relate to their story, if you haven’t heard it already.

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Harriette
1/13/2020 05:35:44 pm

Thanks for sticking up for Biblical truth and for speaking it so clearly and winsomely. Your podcast is very helpful.

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James J Molberg
1/13/2020 05:40:26 pm

Progressive Christianity is a contradiction in terms.

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Mary Lea Tucker
1/13/2020 05:55:48 pm

Is Max Lucado unaware of how unorthodox the teachings of Jen Hatmaker and Richard Rohr are?
Highly unlikely. His own statements in the interview with Hatmaker are just as troubling. This is a quote from the interview:
Max: “And I'm learning, I'm learning. My exciting thing these days is a greater love and appreciation for the Holy Spirit. I feel like my heart has been activated to a deeper appreciation for what he does, and how desperately we need him or her, however you want to call the Holy Spirit. So, that's a nutshell right there”

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Martha Stilwell
1/14/2020 07:13:05 pm

I have always loved Max Lucados books and teachings. However, I was concerned when he was throwing any Christian who voted for Trump under the bus. I ask. Whom did he vote for. Many Christians did not like the things Trump had done personally but just like Jesus choosing folks to do his will that did not seem the best choice, I think God has used Trump mightily.

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Ginger
1/16/2020 02:49:52 pm

Thank you for saying that about Trump! He’s done more for our country and our religious freedoms in three years than anyone I’m the last three decades. God is using him mightily!

Karen Mentzer
3/11/2020 10:47:02 pm

Trump knows how to play their game and still get the job done! While “they” are going from one media uproar to another media uproar, he just keeps weaving his way through the whole mess .........doing what he said he would do! 👍😇

John Rhyner
4/1/2020 04:42:31 am

Truth!!

Patrick link
1/21/2020 11:02:26 am

Learning doesn't seem to be the problem...

Love and appreciation for the Holy Spirit doesn't seem to be the problem...

Deeper appreciation for what the Spirit does and our needs do not seem to be the problem...

The problem is because he used a feminized metaphor for the Spirit? Just like it's done within the Bible? It's only translated as exclusively masculine from Latin. Not Hebrew (both feminine and masculine), nor Greek (gender neutral).

It's important to know you are not really talking about Biblical orthodoxy. You are talking about a Western American worldview. Confusing these two as equivalents will lead to all the disastrous consequences you are afraid Lucado, Hatmaker and Rohr are bringing.

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Jordan
1/21/2020 01:12:38 pm

Patrick, I would agree that Western Christianity has its weaknesses (surely something is lost every time there is a schism). However, the often floated notion that Western Christianity has completely missed the boat on this or that major issue is overblown. Can we stand to learn from other Christian traditions past and present? Sure. But the whole "well that's just a Western thing" can also be an excuse to depart from doctrines that we find personally or culturally distasteful.

Rohr and Hatmaker are part of a segment of Christianity that has significantly departed from orthodoxy in a number of areas. So at least in the minds of conservative Christians, Lucado showed (at best) a lack of discernment in choosing to commune with Hatmaker. It should be unsurprising then that conservatives would begin to more closely scrutinize the rest of what Lucado has to say, including his comments about the HS.

Patrick link
1/22/2020 11:05:03 am

Hello Jordan.

Thanks for your thoughtful comment.

The fundamental problem with Western Christianity is that it (generally speaking) is completely ignorant anything outside itself could still a part of historical orthodoxy. That's a pretty big boat to miss.

The lines the West makes for orthodoxy are blurry, at best. For example. Many Western Christians don't know it is completely orthodox to believe hell doesn't exist as a place of literal eternal torment. The belief is the annihilation of evil so it no longer exists, not infinite punishment. It's also completely orthodox for the Greek and Hebrew words translated as "homosexual" today to be seen as better interrupted as "child molester," which has significant implications for how the issue of homosexuality is handled (and mishandled).

These are popular views in progressive circles but they are not outside the scope of orthodox belief. To keep any form of intellectual integrity requires we acknowledge this fact and stop pretending God is exclusively on the side of our theological tradition, whatever it may be.

We have to admit defending the conservative point of view is ofter far different than defending God. To say otherwise is to take us closer to idolatry. We'd be wise to listen to outside voices who call this out in us.


Jordan
1/22/2020 03:42:30 pm

Patrick,

With all due respect, you seem to be falling into the very trap that I spoke of. You seem to be taking the Christian doctrines that culture finds offensive (and only those, so far) and attributing them to ‘Western Christianity’ (however you define WC).

I think the big question here is "what is orthodoxy?" We cannot simply call something orthodoxy because somebody, somewhere at some point in church history believed or practiced it (you could justify just about any belief or behavior using such criteria). We have to consider the ecumenical creeds, church confessions, and to some extent, the general consensus when determining orthodoxy. For example, if I asked you why you believe in the Trinity, you might appeal to the Council of Nicea or the fact that all major church traditions and the vast majority of Christians in history have affirmed the Trinity.

Scripture is even more important than orthodoxy. While Scripture is not always as clear as we'd like it to be, I believe a satisfactory understanding of God, the gospel of Jesus Christ and the will of God (what he would have us do) can be found in Scripture even if we do not perfectly understand each individual passage. For example, the entire witness of Scripture thoroughly affirms heterosexuality and condemns homosexuality in both the OT and NT. God's design for marriage is not some hidden mystery that we must rely on a dubious translation of a particular to uncover. Moreover, I'm not aware of anything in church history that would constitute calling homosexuality orthodox.

I can see what you’re saying with your last point. Sometimes it can seem like some Christians are more concerned with defending their confessions (or just being right) than witnessing to the living God. However, most Christians believe that glorifying God involves thinking and talking rightly about God and, with the help of the Spirit, doing God’s will. Most Christians throughout history until the ages until the rise of liberalism and conservative Christians today (which are a majority of Christians in the world) believe that we learn about who God is and how to do His will from the divine revelation in the Bible and, to a lesser degree, from church tradition. Christians have long believed that by defending the Bible along with creeds and confessions, that we are defending true statements about the living God and what pleases Him. Yes, we don't want to confuse doctrine with God Himself, but we also must have (and in some cases, defend) Scripture and doctrine in order to know, speak and obey God.

Patrick link
1/25/2020 03:03:53 pm

Hey Jordan,

Great questions. I think we agree on a lot of the nuance surrounding these issues, but don't agree about the assumptions. So my comment here is to unpack the assumptions baked into the framework of how one sees this problem.

Why does the traditional view of most WACs assume differing conclusions (that have historical precedence) must be done as pressure to be more "likable" by the world? Why do we think they are the ones going the easier route? Why can they be blamed for "falling into the trap" of cultural relativism when may be guilty for the same thing generations earlier? How does that accusation stand if an alternative view takes the Bible seriously, honors the integrity of the text, has historical precedence, and can point to the presence of "good fruit" as evidenced by fruit of the Spirit (hope, joy, peace, love, etc.)? Do the markers laid out in Scripture as the evidence of Christ just not apply if we don't agree with their conclusions?

This argument goes both ways. How are our theological foundations tied to a previous generation of cultural relativism? Why are we excusing ourselves of the same sin?

For example, why haven't we named the teachings of John Darby as heresy? Why haven't we publicly and collectively repented from the consequences of embracing dispensationalism as a key foundation of Western American Christianity? It is responsible for the massive shift from Christians primary concern as caring for our neighbors and fellow creation to devoting most of our energy to escaping both the planet and people in it because we can only think of it all as a dump that's going to hell in a hand basket. We succumbed to the idea that the only thing that matters is to secure for yourself the right theological beliefs to get your ticket into heaven. Except before then, Christians didn't see through such a self-centered lens; they saw themselves are responsible for contributing to its redemption. We fell into the trap of making the Bible more palatable for a different generation. It gave us the excuse to start insulating ourselves from the world so we could just give up on everybody else. Is that why blogs like this exist and we put so much energy into labeling who is in and who is out? I wonder if Paul would call our noise we make an empty gong.

If we are going to call out progressive theologians, we have to be willing to repent of our own sins we point out in others. After all, wouldn't modeling our own repentance first be a far more effective teacher?

Don't you think it's time we took the log out of our own eye before we try to take the spec of out others?

Progressives have something to teach us without us agreeing with their conclusions. If we are spending our time discrediting them, fueling our own pride and defending our blindness, instead of listening to what THEIR PRESENCE SAYS ABOUT US: who is more right before God?

I hope this can be something we all can reflect on and pray about.

Jordan
1/25/2020 09:35:01 pm

We still need more unpacking.

What do you mean by “Western American Christianity?” Are you talking about 20th century Pentecostals or 17th century Puritans or 19th century Irish Catholic immigrants? Mennonites? You're talking as if it's one homogenous movement when it's actually a very diverse 500 year chunk of Christian history.

You say we should accept “an alternative view takes the Bible seriously, honors the integrity of the text, has historical precedence, and can point to the presence of "good fruit.” Which alternative views in particular fit that criteria?

Furthermore, what constitutes “taking the Bible seriously” or “has historical precedence?” Progressives often disarmingly remind their readers and listeners that they “take the Bible seriously” or that they are “orthodox”. We have to define what that actually means though. Like I said above, the fact that someone, somewhere at some point in church history believed or practiced something does not make it orthodox.

In your fourth paragraph, you place a lot of blame on dispensationalism. I would agree that history has its high points and low points, its positive developments and misguided ones. However, we should avoid the fallacy that we often see in both politics and theology that imagines some sort of “golden age.” It’s the idea that “everything was great until ____ happened.” These mythical golden ages convince us that things were used to better than they actually were and that things are currently worse than they actually are.

I can understand your desire to avoid divisiveness in favor of inclusion (and by the way, I appreciate what has been a respectful, civil exchange between us so far). However, the New Testament constantly calls out false teaching and warn against it. So what constitutes fair grounds for doing so? Surely if the church is to obey the first commandment it must respond to what it deems to be false statements about God that it sees as unsupported by both Scripture and tradition?

Mark R
1/25/2021 03:06:53 pm

He's gone a complete 180 from his beginnings as a Church of Christ preacher. For those unfamiliar, CofC believes that baptism "for the remission of sins" is mandatory for salvation (and that phrase is critical: if it wasn't said or understood at your baptism -- for example, if you were baptized at a Baptist or Assembly of God church -- then your baptism isn't valid and you will go to Hell unless you get rebaptized in THEIR church).

It's one thing to leave that false teaching, but not to openly embrace something even worse...

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Margie
1/13/2020 06:11:15 pm

Some thoughts.

We are told that those who are spiritual are to seek to restore those who have strayed = rough translation of Gal 6:1. How does this come into play when people go off course in their theology? Should we seek to bring them back?

I constantly wrestle with keeping unity but rejecting unsound teaching.

I love unity and hate divisiveness. I have seen too much over Calvinism/Armenianism, charismatic/noncharismatic, modern worship/hymns only, correct ways to dress, the role/nonrole of women in ministry, triple dipping baptizers and single dippers, homeschool hardliners and so many other things. Jesus prayed for our unity. People major in some minor doctrinal details sometimes. We create our own stupid divisions sometimes. And end up biting each other rather than expanding the Kingdom. It is a clever ploy of the enemy. It has turned many people away from Christians and churches.

Yet, we can't bend God's words to say something they don't. We are freed from sin to do good, not continue in sin. This idea of adapting our theology to our culture is also another clever ploy of the enemy to distract us from building the kingdom. I've seen people who I once knew as wonderful lovers of Jesus take some odd positions that depart from orthodox theology and consider me to be unloving and judgmental when I don't share their inclusiveness. It seems so odd because we used to be on the same page and in fellowship and now it's different worlds. Some have completely departed from the faith. It saddens me so much.

How do we live in such a climate?

The only way I have found to live is to help people take the next step toward Jesus and His love no matter where they are, yet make them aware that Jesus is in the life-changing business. He loves us too much to leave us the way He finds us. He will make changes in us as we follow Him. You cannot give your life to Him, call Him Lord and then tell Him what to do.



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Belle B link
1/16/2020 11:33:41 am

YES Margie! Yes.
And...The whole of the Godhead/3 in 1, all throughout scripture ... there is and has always been, a "standard" to keep and stay steadfast.
If not, then our God who we proclaim, is not "just" or "Holy". What kind of God is that? Not mine!

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Stephanie Bishop
1/13/2020 06:12:22 pm

Thank you for standing up for the truth. You will probably face opposition but I want to encourage you to stand firm. He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

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Brittany
1/13/2020 06:26:10 pm

Alisa,

I think you are one of the most kind and compassionate people who warns other Christians about progressive Christianity. I know of a popular YouTube channel, called “God is grey” and she promotes Pete Enns, Nadia Weber, and etc.

She has a podcast with the same name and is extremely dangerous. She is thoroughly deceived and teaches that losing your virginity outside of wedlock is okay. That the Holy Spirit led her to accept lgbt ppl as born again without any call at all to repentance and etc.

I’m in no place to warn ppl. I’m just a college student. But I please ask you to pray about making a post or podcast about it. She’s very popular with millennials and gen Z...comment section full of ppl agreeing with her. It’s very sad.

God bless and let’s get closer to the Lord <3

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Kaye
1/13/2020 07:44:36 pm

Brittany, it saddens me that you think you're not in a place to warn people about this heresy and share the gospel.

Please don't underestimate your placement by God to relate to your fellow students.

Couch yourself with prayer and the Holy Spirit will guide you to people who are hungry for the gospel.

Take courage lovely, and you will be astonished how God uses you - a humble college student.

Bless you.

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Judy Morrison
1/21/2020 09:48:11 am

What is ppl

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Mark R
1/25/2021 03:07:57 pm

ppl--shorthand for "people", often used on Twitter when it had its 140-character limit

John Rhyner
4/1/2020 04:59:52 am

😰😭😨😰😨😰

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Michael Green link
5/28/2020 12:20:49 pm

Hi, Brittany.
I echo your concern with God is Grey. I have been (forcing myself) to listen to her for about a year now. I struggle to do so, as her teachings are so heretical.

Two weeks ago, I left my first comment. She'd done a blog about "nice manipulators" arguing for traditional Biblical doctrines. I pointed out that she was actually doing that very same thing. I thanked her for allowing me to post and wished her well.

She took the comment down. (She claims to be tolerant.)

I share your concern and hope we believers can encourage each other.

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Lois
3/5/2021 11:31:12 pm

Agree!
Keep standing firm in your faith and planted on the firm foundation of the Gospel. It's all that matters. False teachers are becoming mainstream!
God's word NEVER changes no matter how much it is manilulated!

Brian C Pace
1/13/2020 06:32:34 pm

Unity for the sake of unity is a Satanic temptation in every age. Paul declared he was in danger in
"the presence of false brethren". There is and always will be a danger just being in their presence, how much more being in unity with them!

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Melanie
1/13/2020 06:41:37 pm

Alisa, thank you for so clearly speaking the truth in love. You make difficult topics easy to take in and digest. I appreciate your depth of thought so aptly expressed in winsome writings. Keep up the good work!

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Brenda Browning
1/13/2020 06:42:28 pm

Alisa, Thank you for your words of truth, wisdom and an incredible example of one who contends for the faith.

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Joe Dallas link
1/13/2020 07:13:20 pm

When I was on the pastoral staff of a pro-LGBTQ church in the early 1980's, we prayed for the day Evangelicals would minimize their theological differences with us, and commune "at the table" with gay Christians. Now, 36 years after my own repentance, it's awfully hurtful to see that prayer being answered, though surely not by God.

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barb
2/9/2020 10:50:53 pm

I have to say, Joe, of all the comments I read (though many very good) yours is by far said the most with the fewest words. God bless you, sir!

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John Rhyner
5/14/2020 10:28:50 am

True, Barb!! Thanx, Joe, for your honesty and straight forwardness!! AMEN!!

Mark A Burge
1/13/2020 07:16:16 pm

Thanks for being a voice of truth!

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Julie
1/13/2020 07:32:11 pm

*mic drop* Thank you! I appreciate you and your God-given wisdom tremendously! ❤

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Anonymous
1/13/2020 07:52:21 pm

Alisa,

I would love to hear your thoughts on women sharing the teaching role with men (in the main church services) on an ongoing basis. Many say it violates Scripture, what ar your thoughts? Would you consider a church moving in this direction to be moving toward progressivism?

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CJ link
1/13/2020 08:08:53 pm

Thanks for posting this! (You don't need to post my comment, mostly commenting to ask you a question.

Are you familiar with the emerging missional church? Reconstructionist like Alan Hirsch, Michael Frost, Neil Cole?

I believe they would follow a Kingdom now theology... this is hitting our church association, calling it out has not been easy.

Just curious if you are familiar and have any insight you could share.

Blessings

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kevin
5/28/2020 06:53:55 am

Hello CJ

Could you elaborate on your statement:

`Are you familiar with the emerging missional church? Reconstructionist like Alan Hirsch, Michael Frost, Neil Cole?'

I am really interested in your thoughts. Many thanks.

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Laura Simmons
1/13/2020 09:42:24 pm

Once again, you hit it out of the park Alisa. One by one it seems like my "go to's" are falling into progressive ideology and it is so grievous. It's individuals and organizations! Thank you for standing firm and not compromising. Don't stop!

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Steve Athans link
1/13/2020 10:33:16 pm

Thank you again Alisa for another word of Biblical clarity. It has become such a travesty what the progressives have done to tweak the Truth of God's Word upon the alter of Cultural Acceptance. I do also hope that Max has not fallen prey as some others have begun within the SBC. Thank you for faithfulness as a Watchman.

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Paul W.
1/13/2020 10:35:04 pm

Alisa Childers, thank you tremendously for this highly cautionary and justly critical podcast regarding some specific voices of "progressive Christianity" and that movement as a whole, harking back to important instructions from the true, earliest Apostles.
I'll bet that this current major error, and maybe many other errors inside evangelicalism's "umbrella," are correlated with the widespread reality that much of evangelicalism takes place in local churches which disdain being affiliated with, and members of, larger church bodies which have the theological tradition dating back to the Reformation of Martin Luther and other serious, well-grounded thinkers of that era, as well as later ones who stayed "in communion" the best of those orthodox thinkers in later times.(?)

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Ann Lorraine
1/13/2020 11:28:49 pm

Spot on, Alisa. I'm thinking of these words of Jesus that are often forgotten: "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:" (Luke 12:51)

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Ralph Ackley
1/14/2020 08:48:26 am

wow! Thank you for speaking the truth in love! In today's society, we MUST stay close to Jesus and His word and watch out for our insecurities----the need to be loved and accepted by others, which can and has led many to seriously consider other's false understandings and explanations of the gospel. Our loyalty is to Jesus first and foremost and what the Word of God says in it's entirety. Never thought I'd see the day when the literal fulfillment of the passage "the great falling away" would come but here it is, not only on our doorstep but in some cases in our own homes!

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Phoenix
1/14/2020 09:04:59 am

All excellent points. You bring a balanced argument that is gentle and yet firm. Well done!

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CC
1/14/2020 10:01:48 am

Outstanding article! I will be sharing it.

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Shane
1/14/2020 10:23:35 am

I think what I’ve come to believe is that the lines are much blurrier than anyone cares to recognize. I was in your camp most of my life. And, hear me... I’m not saying you’re wrong and I’ve figured it out. What worries me is who’s to say what is false teaching?

Many would say... well, anything that goes against what the Bible says is false teaching. I would submit that what they’re REALLY saying is... anything that goes against MY INTERPRETATION of what the Bible says is false teaching.

I know there is a great defense for the conservative reading of the Bible, but please know that all interpretations have their own defenses.

So, here is where I land now... I think your interpretation of Scripture is great. Your faith in what you believe the Bible to say is wonderful. But when you stand on your interpretation as the one and only true interpretation and all teachings should be held to the standard of your interpretation, that’s where I have issues. “Calling out false teachers” because they don’t line up with your interpretation... that’s when it gets messy.

The real divisiveness comes from everyone standing on their own interpretations as actual Truth. Hence, the multiple thousands of denominations.

The other issue is when we hold out a passage of Scripture as absolute truth yet dismiss others that we have culturally and conscientiously grown past. For instance, we might hold to Paul’s teaching that women should not preach to men as solid biblical truth but then dismiss Peter’s teaching about how to treat our slaves. Just as an example.

I just think we’re missing the mark by “calling out” people who clearly love Jesus and care for his people because they have a different interpretation of the text than us.

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Kay
1/14/2020 01:09:24 pm

Good points. We have to be careful and continue to have open dialogue while constantly praying about these matters.

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Katie
1/14/2020 01:38:40 pm

Yes. This comment says well what is also on my heart as I read this article. Thank you, Shane, for expressing this point of view. Let us seek Truth, and know the Bible does NOT change but our understanding of it does. When people have what you consider are heretical beliefs, engage with them yes! But do not condemn them. Be quick to listen, slow to speak. But as the Bible says LISTEN and try to understand first. Then speak. You might never agree, and they might indeed have a speck in their eye, but beware as we just as often have a plank in ours.

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Jineen
1/14/2020 06:56:09 pm

100% agree

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Roger Knowlton
1/14/2020 07:00:36 pm

Shane, I think you would be helped by this article from Don Carson, “That’s just your interpretation“. The dangerous aspect of your argument is that somehow we can’t know things unless we know them 100%. But of course that can’t be true. If someone asked me if my wife was a Russian spy, I would say that she surely isn’t. But they might reply that I can’t be 100% sure, and yet I can truly know that she is not a Russian spy. We know that Jesus is God come in the flesh, even though some members of various cults would disagree. And the teaching on sexuality in the Bible is also very clear, and all non Christian scholars of God’s word would say that both the Old and New Testament’s would say homosexuality is wrong. Take a look at this article below...

https://themelios.thegospelcoalition.org/article/but-thats-just-your-interpretation/

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Rucj
1/15/2020 05:44:46 pm

Your comment does not apply to the distinction between the author of this article and the people she is challenging. Here's why: Jen Hatmaker does NOT interpret the Bible, but rather simply ignores or dismisses any part of the Bible with which she disagrees. Furthermore there are good rules of interpretation laid down by men like Gordon Fee (on the NT) and Doug Stuart (on the OT) so that person studying Scripture may understand and interpret passages in the way they were intended by both the human author and the Holy Spirit. There aren't that many "unclear" passages, but there a lot of passages that are crystal clear which liberal Christians and unbelievers just don't like and therefore dismiss and revile. There's no interpretive method from the Mad Hatmaker nor from Richard Rohr nor from .Sara Bessey or Rachel Held Evans (ARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!). ....I just needed that moment...... Bottom line: You are not talking about genuine Biblical exegesis and follow the laws of hermeneutics when you say "interpretation," but you are clearly only talking about opinions. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but you are NOT entitled by Scripture to view all Biblical interpretation as opinion.....and that is what you have done.

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Patrick link
1/16/2020 06:37:32 am

Thank you, Shane. You clearly, kindly and with respect pointed out the difference between knowledge and wisdom.

Ruci, you just did to Shane’s words, what you accused him and others of doing to the Bible. If you can see this, it probably comes at great shock to you. I offer this as an explanation to why.

When you see someone doing something wrong, you assume it’s due to inherent character defects of the person doing the wrong behavior. If you do something wrong, you assume it’s due to a simple mistake or circumstances outside of your control. For example, if you have a meeting with someone and they are late, it’s because they’re inconsiderate and don’t value other people’s time. If you are late, however, it’s because traffic was horrible. If you the other guy fails a test, it’s because they didn’t study. If you fail a test, it’s because it was an overly difficult test or the teacher didn’t like you. If RHE concludes a different meaning of a certain Scripture passage than us (with our modern conservative Western American interpretations), it’s because she doesn’t love the Bible and makes it say whatever she wants. But if you start seeing a different interpretation than the people within your circles... you can see where I’m going here.

Apply this to any situation and see if it continues this pattern. This universal human phenomenon is called the False Attribution Theory. I think it’s just a fancy way of saying “sin.”

In other words, hopefully we can stop inserting exaggerated character defects into people of a different theological camps in the name of discernment when it’s clearly sin.

Karen
1/17/2020 05:09:15 am

I think Shane has a valid point. What are the odds that all of those praising this author have all of the same beliefs? From reading most of the comments, it's zero. Clearly there are both Catholics and evangelicals. Those two groups believe very divergent things, and both groups believe they are correct. Then among the evangelicals, there are no doubt that some believe that you must be immersed/ baptized before you can be saved. Others believe that you just need to accept Jesus into your heart. Same as the nature vs nurture debate in behavioral science, each person think a certain way based on how they were raised, what they were taught, the culture of the society in which the live, etc. We study, we discuss, and we think we're getting it too. Of course that means other"denominations", who believe differently, mist be wrong. Yes there are absolutes, but without reading the Bible in its original language, and living at the time that it was written, so as to know context, absolutes can be slippery.

Amy
1/16/2020 12:08:22 pm

Yes. Thank you Shane for this comment, it is just what I wanted to say here. Spot. On.

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Lainie
1/17/2020 09:26:11 am

SHANE, Thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking. If our focus is to be "Jesus" like and increase His kingdom, we need to love people where they are, who they are and let the Holy Spirit work on their hearts in however way that individual needs. If all we do is see what separates us we will never be able to be inviting and loving enough to make ALL comfortable to hear what we have to say.

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Sharon
2/7/2021 08:22:10 am

Shane I agree with you. There are many voices and each has something worthwhile to say. Instead of who is right or wrong love justice for all regardless of what or who we perceive them to be. If we can do one simple thing Love our neighbors as we love God and ourselves all this back and forth about who is right and who is wrong woul be nul and void.when we can see Christ in every living soul then and only then have we earned the right to judge. Christ is bigger than anyone of us. He is only calling us to love. Love with our differences and love beyond our difference.

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Gladys
2/24/2022 01:02:27 pm

I agree with everything you say. That is my position too? who is to say what is a false teaching really? you are right, their are thousands of interpretations to the bible and who is to say who is correct?

I see this so obvious, yet people act like they are right and everyone else is wrong. I have come to accept that their are multiple views and sometimes i have a hard time making a particular stand. The only thing i know for sure is that Christ was crucified and rose from the dead and that he called all to "love our neighbor" apart from that i think everything else is subject to interpretation.

I see the evangelical tradition so hung up on "Truth" and certainty on things.

One thing i have learned as i get older is the "certainty" is alot harder to grasp sometimes and that ultimately, God is a mystery and we are finite creatures.

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Corey Cheek
1/14/2020 11:31:10 am

fantastic!

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Aaron
1/14/2020 12:26:47 pm

Conservatives are losing the likes of Lucado and Stanley (and countless lay people) because the theological, political, and social demands of fundamentalism are too extreme for an increasing number of Christians today. Expect this trend only to continue. The kind of extreme conservatism this site advocates is a dying worldview that will never completely disappear but will become irrelevant.

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Joseph Covert
1/14/2020 07:55:58 pm

I believe you are right Aaron. There is a huge push toward ecumenism. The only way that can be achieved, within the christian denominations, is through eroding the evangelical foundations beginning with the scriptures. And ... if the scriptures can’t be reduced to simply historical “narratives” composed through culturally sensitized human emotions ... then the movement must find fault with those individuals who have errant interpretations. Either way, nobody can know anything.

While I’m here on this reply. I grew up and was taught a great deal about the Church. The only Church I ever knew about was the one Jesus gave Himself for. The Church was/is His body, His bride, His temple, His house, His poem, His eternal purpose, His lampstand, His new creation. Just to name a few descriptors given to her. The word “church” is used 72x in Romans through Hebrews, 22x in Acts, and 22x times in Revelation with 20x in first 3 chapters. Church is only mentioned 2x in the four gospels. Both in Matthew. By contrast, the word “kingdom” is used 55x in Matthew, 19x in Mark, 46x in Luke, 3x in John. But only 17x in Rom-Heb.

My point? I hear nothing these days about the Church and the epistles of Paul. It’s always the Kingdom and Matthews gospel. It’s always the “great commission” in Mt 28 but never, ever, the “commission of Paul to the gentiles” in Acts 26. I’m not a Jew. Peter was the apostle to the Jews, to the circumcision. Paul is the Lord Jesus’ chosen vessel to go outside of judaism to call out (ekklesia=church) a people for His name. Romans 9-11 describe the blinding and restoration of Israel “after the fullness of the gentiles” has come in.

Again, I totally agree with you regarding the departure/apostasy from evangelical fundamentalism.

But this is just my interpretation.

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Mark R
1/25/2021 03:15:40 pm

It is sad that many of the doctrinal epistles are being ignored.

Fortunately my church (Prestonwood, which is VERY well-known) did a series on Ephesians last year (though we interrupted it mid-way to do a series on fear due to the COVID pandemic, but we returned to it) and this year we will be starting a series on Romans. Last time I checked Paul wrote both of those epistles.

If you are unable to find a solid, Bible-teaching church in your area, my church's sermons are on its YouTube channel (in fact you can get the whole service).

Lori
1/14/2020 12:58:44 pm

Thank you for speaking and standing in God’s truth!!

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Kay
1/14/2020 01:24:43 pm

I think your points are valid, but I feel like there must be a warning to every Christian to avoid making people enemies through labels. Our fights are spiritual and not physical or social. We should be praying in the spirit and not creating villains in liberals, evangelicals, progressives, etc. That's too slippery of a slope that has become dangerous to many people and distracts us from the real enemy.

Yes, defend the gospel. But remember it can fight for itself so stay in prayer, not in corners. Let those people go who don't want to accept the word point blank and let God deal with them. Have conversations about these topics but don't isolate people into any form of stereotypes. God's creation is too complex to act like we know everything even if we see trends and patterns. And we're too sinful to be judges of people's full characters.

I pray we all learn true faith and objectivity so we can spread this gospel and be called faithful by God at the end of our lives.

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Kerry
1/15/2020 12:26:48 pm

Agreed. Thank you.

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Stevie
1/16/2020 12:34:39 pm

All of this. Especially this "the Gospel can fight for itself." If it is true, I have no reason to fear it might be diluted or stomped on, and I believe it is true. I echo your prayer - may we learn true faith, may we stay in prayer not in corners, may we rely on Holy Spirit to help us determine what is cultural and what is Christian, may we live out our faith without fear and the things that come with fear (control, striving, grasping), may we love Him above everything else and may we love others the way He has loved us (while we were still sinners He loved us and submitted Himself to a life on earth for us, and died for us.) In Jesus' name.

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Krista Barnes
1/14/2020 02:11:22 pm

Rohr says: Many Christians have a very limited understanding of Jesus’ historical or social message, and almost no understanding of the Cosmic Christ—even though it is taught clearly in Scripture (see John 1, Colossians 1, Ephesians 1, 1 John 1, Hebrews 1:1).

Such nonsense. A cosmic Christ? really.
Thank you Alisa for your truth stand.
You are a model for those of us that want to be clear with the need to stand against error and call it out - even though not popular and misunderstood - in hopes to of rescuing Christians from total apostasy which we understand from Scripture is foretold.

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Stella Gruenbacher
1/14/2020 03:36:17 pm

Excellent article. Richard Rohr pretends to speak for the Catholic Church, but he is an apostate. “Progressive” Catholics and others who want to remake Church teaching to their own tastes love to quote him. Unfortunately he is not condemned by our current pope who, himself, is attempting to destroy he traditional faith.

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Meg
1/14/2020 05:17:21 pm

Alisa, I too count on your blog to know more specifically what is going on in “the body.” Being raised in an extremely liberal church and coming out of it in college, I am the opposite of about 90% of these progressives. When questioning where this false teaching began, I realized, of course, in Genesis 3. The difficult aspect for me is that these people did come out of solid homes, found “their own way” and now........ Just praying for our 4 adult children to know that “the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld His glory...”. We can not separate The Word from The Word.

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CG
1/14/2020 07:05:16 pm

I think this is a much broader problem then most people realize. I would say whether it is Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Catholicism, Protestant, Charismatic, or any other non-denominational group or sect that is out there, it is the adding, taking away, or flat out denial of Scripture and its relevance is to when Scripture applies or does not apply in an individual's life as a Christian.

"The gospel is worth fighting for. The church is worth protecting. It’s this generation’s turn to do the hard things, and I pray God will give our Christian leaders the courage and unflinching loyalty to the sufficiency and authority of the Scriptures not only to discern the deceptions, but also to speak God’s truth clearly to those who are being misled."

The gospel is worth fighting for. "The Body of Christ" is worth protecting. But an individual church or denominations? A parachurch organization? A ministry? A "Christian" celebrity? Especially when a liberal route, a progressive route, a socialist route, rears its head with any of these? And in the end will always be protected by "church security teams" the church's lawyers, the misguided within such groups and the world at large, because it fits what the world wants?

I would say, walk away. Stop putting time and money into it, regardless of what is sacrificed in one's life. It isn't worth it. Find the like minded and those who adhere to "right-division" of Scripture in both practice and application to life. Because I will tell you, that is happening right now. People are getting tired of this garbage that is going on and they are walking out.

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Joseph Covert
1/16/2020 11:28:42 am

You nailed it! Don’t follow anyone but the Lord!

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Kim B
1/15/2020 07:16:13 am

“ If we walk in the Light, as He is in the light we have Fellowship...” (John
Progressivism promotes fellowship with the World, and identity along the lines of our sensual nature “ ...speaking loud boasts of Folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh... “ ( 2 Peter 2:17) . To change the name of such passions , and “ tolerate “ or embrace them is offend the Image of God in us. The World is dying, yet they chose to find identity; and find “ salvation” in self-satisfaction. Defining themselves by the god - man.
To define Fellowship on the lines of sensuality is to deny God. As a believer, my first obligation is to Love and edify my brother and sister who walk in the Light. The dark folly of man is not to be celebrated, but to call him or her into the circle of Fellowship of Light. It is error to condemn believers for believing truth, it is folly to assign Truth to the relative definitions of the World.

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Mike A
1/15/2020 01:19:55 pm

Please, please share this post with Max Lucado if you haven't already, and invite him to discuss it with you if he'd like. I think his heart's in the right place, but he obviously misunderstands the theology of unity. This post is a wonderful and compelling correction!!

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Laura Simmons
1/15/2020 01:40:49 pm

I 2nd that suggestion!

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Steve Perkins link
1/15/2020 06:40:38 pm

This is your key statement, “But we would do good to remember that the Bible places the blame for divisions on the ones bringing in the false doctrine, not on those who call it out.“

Perfectly stated and one hundred percent accurate.

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David
1/16/2020 08:23:29 am

"Unity which is obtained by the sacrifice of truth is worth nothing. It is not the unity which pleases God."-J.C. Ryle

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Al Reynosa link
1/16/2020 08:41:45 am

I use to attend Oakhills and Max has a liberal leaning on certain issues.

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Mike
1/16/2020 09:55:05 am

One thing that hasn't been mentioned (apologies if I missed someones comment on this already) was at the 8:45 (approx.) mark of the podcast when Max Lucado refers to the Holy Spirit as being masculine or feminine, "however you want to call it". Thoughts on that?

(FYI, good article here by Bill Mounce on the subject: https://www.billmounce.com/monday-with-mounce/the-holy-spirit-she)

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Laura R Simmons
1/16/2020 09:58:40 am

Oh my goodness, yes! I forgot about that but did read it and could not believe it! What??????????????

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Mike
1/16/2020 10:57:45 am

Ugh, another 'gem' from Max:

----

Two days ago I went to downtown San Antonio to have lunch with a pastor of a downtown church that is caught up in the controversy over whether or not to have gay marriages.

Jen: Oh, yeah.

Max: And so they've landed on the side of yes, they will. They will have gay marriages. It is an old church. And they have about 200 active members.

Jen: Okay.

Max: But listen to this, they feed about 800 homeless people a week.

----

Well hallelujah, good thing its 800 and not 200 or otherwise we'd have a real problem with it. God help us.

Brady Young
1/16/2020 10:44:44 am

Thank you for taking the time to write about the tension between two *seemingly* different gospels. However, I believe you have severely missed the mark on your analysis of Rohr's teachings. It is tiresome in his books/podcasts/teachings how often he has to defend an orthodox view of Jesus (both God and man).

He is sharing the gospel -- the same gospel you know and love -- he just uses UPS while you prefer FedEx.

Philippians 1:18 "But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice."

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Joseph Covert
1/16/2020 12:26:33 pm

From what I gather he’s not preaching the Christ Paul preached.

Appears to be another gospel, another Jesus, and another spirit? Whom many gladly receive and tolerate.

He’s certainly well beyond the “simplicity that is in Christ Jesus the Lord.”

Maybe he’s interested in promoting his books and supporting the ecumenical movement?

Not a fan. May the Lord be merciful and grant repentance to any of us who acknowledge the truth, repent, and recover themselves from the snare of the devil.

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AF
1/16/2020 12:45:34 pm

I agree with your main point, but pay attention to the context of that verse. It isn't talking about what translation of the Bible you use. Its the motives for why you are preaching the Gospel. Are you preaching for self-fame or are you preaching so that you are making disciples of Christ?

'It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, '

Philippians 1:15-18

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Patrick link
1/16/2020 04:56:36 pm

Thank you Brady.

Historical orthodoxy is far more diverse than what most Bible-believing Americans care to know.

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Jordan
1/22/2020 09:23:02 pm

Brady, do you not find it dubious that Rohr has to constantly say things like "don't worry, this is orthodox" or "I bet you think I'm a New Ager, but I'm not"? Notice he usually offers little to substantiate those claims, and when he does, it's usually vague. If he was actually biblical and orthodox, he wouldn't have to constantly make disarming statements in order to convince his listeners and readers about that.

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Amy DiMarcangelo link
1/16/2020 10:55:21 am

Thank you for writing such a careful, discerning, and helpful article on this very important topic.

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Mike Badgley
1/16/2020 12:09:20 pm

It's interesting how Max Lucado's view on same-sex marriage seems to have softened over the years. If you check out the comments he had in an article from 2004 and compare it to what he is saying (by implication) here, it's pretty troubling:

2004 article "What God Says About Gay Marriage"
https://www.crosswalk.com/faith/spiritual-life/what-god-says-about-gay-marriage-1273774.html

"Let the church be a house of compassion. But let her also be a house of conviction. The Holy Scripture was the first code to call man and women to rein in their sexual desires and express them under the covenant of male-female marriage. Homosexual union then is not a step forward, but a step backward. A step back into the society from which God delivered us."

Excellent advice, no one would have any problems with a statement like that. However, with Jen he really muddies the water with these comments (this is approx. at the midpoint of the podcast):

"Two days ago I went to downtown San Antonio to have lunch with a pastor of a downtown church that is caught up in the controversy over whether or not to have gay marriages. ... And so they've landed on the side of yes, they will. They will have gay marriages. It is an old church. And they have about 200 active members. ... But listen to this, they feed about 800 homeless people a week. ... And we connected right there. We connected right there. And there's fellowship there, there's fellowship."

That does not square up at all with what he said in 2004. Back then he was talking about it as a sin we are called OUT of the world FROM. Now he's talking about having fellowship with those who not only practice it, but affirm it as truth.

When I see this and, not to be a hypocrite, and see my own life I realize how difficult it is to live out Galations 5:1. Stand firm.

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Delwyn X Campbell
1/16/2020 01:31:45 pm

As a called and ordained pastor in the Lutheran Church -Missouri Synod, I understand the travails of pulpit and altar fellowship. For example, unless the rest of you confess the Book of Concord in all of its particulars, you and I do not share Pulpit and Altar Fellowship. I would not say that you aren't a Christian, but I cannot say that we are in fellowship. If you are a Calvinist or an Arminian, you do not walk in full fellowship with a Confessional Evangelical - AKA Lutheran - Christian.
Based upon that, I must view your teachings as being in error when they do not agree with the Book of Concord, which, we believe, teach, and confess, is a clear and faithful exposition of the Word of God. "The Lutheran Confessions are a summary and explanation of the Bible. They are not placed over the Bible. They do not take the place of the Bible. The Book of Concord is how Lutherans are able to say, together, as a church, "This is what we believe. This is what we teach. This is what we confess." The reason we have the Book of Concord is because of how highly we value correct teaching and preaching of God's Word." It is very easy to find the places where we are in disagreement with others who name the name of Christ, such as regarding Holy Baptism, the Lord's Supper, and what it means to be justified by grace through faith. It is much more difficult to find a way to walk together.

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Scott link
1/16/2020 01:43:27 pm

"Rohr denies the exclusivity of Christianity, and encourages readers to disagree with or omit the things they believe are wrong with the Bible."
This section boggles my mind. How can anyone claim that God is God but that Christianity is not the exclusive way to Him. It is a core truth throughout Scripture. Is it offensive to some, yes. Does that make it any less true? No. As far as omitting things from the bible WE disagree with then that is a dangerous road because we might just start throwing out things we do not want to agree with.

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Craig
1/16/2020 02:46:59 pm

This is nothing new with Lucado. Look up his 9/11 prayer where he speaks positively of Christians praying with Jews. He has long espoused the "doctrine divides" creed.It is laced throughout his writings. This is exactly backwards in that it is only doctrine that unites. As Luther said, doctrine is like a golden chain and once one link is broken it is much easier for others to fall, which is what has happened with Lucado and many other evangelicals.

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Patrick link
1/16/2020 03:53:28 pm

Alisa,

Could you define what you mean by “liberal” and where in the Bible it says this is the enemy? So far, I’ve only seen you speak in metaphors and quote biblical metaphors. As you know, metaphors can have many shades of grey and a wide range of interpretations because they are not literal. Could you be more precise, practical and concrete in your language with what you mean here?

Secondly, in more a generalized sense, it seems the main fear/threat of what’s labeled as liberalism is cultural relativism (watering down key points/issues to make them more palatable and acceptable). If that’s so, is it possible you are reading your own cultural relativism (from a modern, conservative, Western American point of view) into Scripture?

How would you know if you are or aren’t influenced by your own cultural context? My guess is you wouldn’t know until you tried to step outside of it and could really see it from an outsiders’ perspective. How would you describe your context from an outside point of view?

I ask these questions out of genuine curiosity and a desire for honesty. As Willard once said, “Faith doesn’t grow on dishonesty.”

I’m hoping you can help me solve this problem of understanding. Thank you.

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Tina
1/17/2020 09:50:52 am

Thank you for saying the hard things that need to be said. Christian leaders will be and are held to a higher standard. Yes, there can be some misunderstanding of ones views, but when you are publicly making statements about "unity" you need to know for sure who you are uniting with. We are living in the times of "muddy waters" and political correctness. Christians are not to hang out there. We are to stand in the light and lovingly share His Truth. It is the only truth that matters.

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Michael McLain
1/18/2020 01:53:53 am

I doubt this will be approved, but here is hoping!

First of all, what is "orthodox" or not has changed over the years. Much of what Rohr is preaching was considered Orthodox back before Christianity harnessed itself to the Roman Empire and Constantine, and Augustine created a gospel which would accompany that.

I come from the same tradition that Lucado did, and I appreciate his courage for reaching out and connecting, something that has not always come easy for people out of the Churches of Christ.

It is telling that most of your quotes come from Paul and not Jesus. No exploration of Jesus' editing of scripture, just accusation against Rohr's teaching of it. Look it up! It's there!

Rohr may not think that Christianity is unique, and seeing the mess it has become, who can argue. But he would never discount the world's need for Christ!

The great thing, and Lucado, Rohr and Hatmaker would agree, I think, is that there is more grace available for our mistakes then we can ever imagine.

Look deeper.

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Jordan
1/18/2020 10:50:37 am

Michael, I also come from the churches of Christ, and while I am glad our tradition is beginning to look beyond itself and find communion with other Christians, I believe that embracing Rohr and others of his ilk is unwise.

Rohr advocates panentheism, the belief that God is in everything and everyone, which is essentially New Age (perhaps it's telling that Rohr has to constantly assures his listeners and readers that he is orthodox and not New Age?). This belief leads Rohr to a denial of Christ's atonement (God is already in everyone, so we don't need to be reconciled to Him) as well as God's judgement (if we're all essentially divine, how could anyone possibly be damned?). Rohr also advocates for homosexuality and as has been mentioned, he makes the unsubstantiated claim that Jesus himself had a selective view of Scripture.

Since Rohr is a pluralist, he is unconcerned that people identify God and Jesus as such; other spiritual paths lead there anyway, right? Surely that is slanderous to God. How can we with any seriousness say "hallowed be Thy name" and at the same time be unconcerned as to whether or not God's name is actually hallowed?

This is not some 'alternative' orthodoxy. Most of the (usually sloppy, uncited) references Rohr makes with historical Christians, but many have been identified as heretics, usually for good reason. Rohr is using Christian language to advocate panentheism (basically vague, New Age spirituality). He knows that angsty former fundamentalists will fall all over it, and he also knows that narcissistic Americans will love to hear that they are essentially already divine.

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Michael McLain
1/19/2020 06:03:42 am

If we can just go one idea at a time, Jesus did contradict scripture, edit scripture, and omit parts of passages.

"You have heard it said, and eye for an eye. But I say..."

Boom.

Jordan
1/19/2020 11:38:38 pm

Michael, if you will read that entire chapter, Matthew 5, you will find the following:

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

We are to understand the rest of Matthew 5 in the above terms. Jesus is not abolishing the law and and prophets (aka the Old Testament). Jesus is clarifying the proper understanding of the law over against the interpretations of the Pharisees and teachers of the law. At the end of the chapter, Jesus says, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." That's a long way from abolishing or contradicting the law.

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Ricardo J Johnson
1/18/2020 02:02:14 am

Great article! Sad to say but i believe many more people who have professed christianity will fall away from the true faith. But the ones who are for real will shine brighter and brighter in the last days!!! Remember its never the crowd.

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Janelle Stoermer
1/21/2020 09:45:25 pm

This was excellent. I agree 100%. I found this by accident, but was compelled by the intellectual and biblical consistency. I love scholarly, Conservative Christianity.

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Durf
1/24/2020 03:37:30 pm

I think the problem nowadays is our culture does not like moral absolutes and exclusionary systems. But Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Light; and there is no other way to the Father except through the Son. People have a problem with that.

They also have a problem with a God Who has and will continue to judge.

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Michael Green link
1/30/2020 03:35:39 pm

Thanks so much for your words (and work)!

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Katie
2/1/2020 12:36:46 am

Sad to hear when rich and famous followers fall. Vanity and riches are satan's favorite tools to work with. Is being rich a sin? No, but I don't envy rich people because it is much harder for them to have a clear mind of the Truth. There's something I'd like to share with Christians out there...please remember to be very careful and cautious and be in prayer continually. Satan is like a roaring lion, walking about, seeking whom he may devour. He is more powerful than us (alone) that's why we need Christ at our forefront constantly, everyday, reading the Bible, praying without ceasing. Satan knows he only has a short time. He's not going to hell alone, he's going to take everyone he can get his hands on. Satan's side is more seductive and alluring, but make no mistake-he hates his children. And even though our lives here are hard, we at least know how much God loves us and is waiting patiently in heaven for us. Keep His word clear in your hearts.

One more thing I want to say before I go...read His parables..all of them and read em again and again. They're just so wonderful. He is so wonderful ❤️

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Michael Green link
3/9/2020 03:28:00 pm

Thanks for your work, Alisa. I've greatly benefited from it. I'm a Christian writer, and two years ago I went to a (supposed) Christian writers' conference. What I didn't know was that most of the leading voices in the PC movement spoke there. AT the time, something didn't seem right but i couldn't put my finger on it.
I'm very grateful to be able to put into words my concern over liberal theology.
I just listened to a podcast posted today by one of those leaders mentioned in this article, the subject being abortion and "reproductive rights." One of the guests was Max Lucado's daughter, who argued for abortion.
Looking at her Twitter, one could believe she's a progressive Christian.
Obviously, we don't make assumptions. Because someone in a family believes one thing, we can't charge that another family member does. But it raises a red flag for me.

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John Rhyner
4/8/2020 11:40:56 am

Wow!! My own Mom shared to me 10 years ago that she tried to miscarry me when she realized the type of man my Dad was. She was 18 and not a believer until she was 38. Then 2 years ago, she shared how she tried to have me aborted.
THE ABORTIONIST WAS JAILED BEFORE HE HAD THE CHANCE. All my life since I can remember, I've struggled with rejection issues, depression and self-hatred. I NOW realize that I was born in the abandonment!! (Plus the fact that Dad and Mom divorced before I was 5! I received Christ at 11, but it took me 30 YEARS TO UNDERSTAND GOD'S LOVE FOR ME!! That was barely 10 years ago!! I'm now 51 and God has a Deep call in my life because of what I dealt with, even though a very late start!!

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Michael Green link
4/11/2020 11:07:29 am

John,
what a beautiful story. The Lord bless you on this Easter weekend.

John Rhyner
4/12/2020 10:35:36 am

Thanx, Michael! Truly, He has risen!! From living a life of rejection to finally walk in a life of acceptance IS FULLY AMAZING!! Shame traps us so deeply!! It seems that it is not addressed enough for people to walk into Truth....

Dick Leppky
3/21/2020 01:00:24 pm

It seems I may be a little late to the 'table' which I was not aware of until today. There are too many to reply to directly; but I want to list my agreement with: Richard, Mike, Dawn, Jennifer, Paul, David, Eric, Sharon, RebbecaLynn, Martha, Ginger, Brian. The last several decades of leftward/liberalism in evangelical leadership, authors, pulpits, Bible colleges, and seminaries has created a big tent of heresy and outright apostasy in the (former) evangelical churches and denominations. This commentary cannot cover the past 15 years of deep research I, and several dozen others have done on this subject. Suffice it to say, the problem is much greater than these few specifics.

Jeminie and Peter gave the critical advice that is needed during these developing end times 'signs.' (I no longer refer to myself as evangelical - but rather a Biblical Christian.)
Ephesians 6:12; Colossians 2:8; 2nd Timothy 2:15;

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John Rhyner
4/8/2020 11:48:17 am

Thanx, Dick, for standing up to all that U said!! Read the comment that I wrote Michael Green when it gets posted! Had a heavy thing to share!

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Nebyou Yohannes Merhatsid
6/27/2020 08:54:02 am

Hi Alisa ,

Thank you for the thoughtful article. I am from Ethiopia , and though I am familiar with Max Lucado and his works , your article has brought a lot of clarity for me for other reasons - some ecumenical undertakings going on in the Evangelical churches here in our country. I started following you recently after seeing you on Capturing Christianity.

Thank you.

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John
6/27/2020 07:53:11 pm

I yearn for the simple truth of a simple Christian life. The evil we see in the world today is the degradation of mankind from Eden and we are not surprised.

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Sandy
7/19/2020 07:29:31 pm

I have liked your podcast, especially in regards to homosexuality conversations but I see many of your followers are using your voice to justify judgement and hate towards others. Sad.

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Michael Green
7/20/2020 09:25:09 am

Sandy,
Hi. I hope all is well.
I was sorry to read your comment about some using others' voices to justify. That is most certainly not a Christ-like response.
I was wondering if you elaborate on how these followers are spreading hate to others. I haven't seen anyone use Alisa's words to do this, and your comment worries me. In what ways have you seen others spreading hate?
Thanks, Sandy.
michael

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Alicia
8/16/2020 01:14:42 pm

It's so true that the Gospel is worth fighting for. "If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all." (Isaiah 7:9). Once the Gospel is compromised in the church, liberalism takes over. Unfortunately, this is what's eating churches alive.

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Nazarene
2/13/2021 07:09:34 pm

Lucado has become a "people pleaser". He apologizes for this and for that, he seems to be ashamed of the gospel! Has he turned to be a double-minded man?
I still have a few of his children books. I will erase his name from them. I do not want my heritage to be aquainted with lukewarm authors.

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Mike Rathbone
5/1/2021 06:34:44 pm

Hi Alisa, thanks so much for writing this I recently was invited by friend to read Brian Zahnd’s book ‘sinners in the hands of a loving God’ and was appalled by what I read. I kinda get the feeling that that Universalist teaching like Shane Willard’s is endorsed by other people who are looked up to by ecangelicals and pentecostals alike. I completely agree with you, it is false teaching and should be rejected, wholesale.

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Rach
5/11/2021 07:16:20 pm

Max Lucado continues to leave behind the true gospel. I was just watching him teach in Joel Osteen’s church (December 2020).

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Jane Carpenter
5/12/2021 11:07:21 am

I MUST keep this article. Great truths - written plain. I especially like this statement: "But we would do good to remember that the Bible places the blame for divisions on the ones bringing in the false doctrine, not on those who call it out. " Thank you for saying it exactly as we believe and helping us to defend against false teaching.

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Phillip
8/6/2021 01:59:58 pm

Great job as usual Alisa. I particularly liked the insight you shared about how the Apostles put the blame for causing division on those who teach false doctrine, not those who stand for the true faith. I had never quite heard it put that way and I think it is extremely helpful.

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Brock
8/7/2021 10:17:10 am

Why not ask Max on your show and discuss it?

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Chris
8/24/2021 04:18:03 pm

Alisa, you are spot on as usual.
Thank you for this well thought out piece. I was never much a "fan" of Max...a guy who writes sooo many books, I always question and have reservation regarding them. The lack of "depth" in many of them is not much of my style. Maybe that's his wanting not to be controversial. The Gospel message IS controversial...the Spirit will convict. It's not our job to "water it down."
You mentioned Andy Stanley, he has stated that Christians no longer need the Old Testament...THAT is huge cause for concern.

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Pam
8/26/2021 11:39:03 am

I would love to see you bring in Max Lucado and then Andy Stanley to discuss with you how to stay TRUE to the gospel while dialoguing and discussing scripture with those who are progressive or mainline. Somehow we need to bring the wanderers back to orthodox Christianity. My heart is grieved for Jen and the left turn she took on marriage and the Bible. And more grieved for those she led astray. Praying for the church global today. 🙏🙏

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Jenny
11/29/2021 11:19:10 am

Hi Alisa, I feel the strain of a million thoughts right now. But I want to start with thank you for writing this. I've been listening to podcasts from Glennon Doyle, looking up new content from Hatmaker, etc., and as of Sunday (yesterday), I noticed that it's wrong. Psalm 101:3 was preached and it felt like a knife to my heart (in a good way). I come from a background of LGBT struggles. When I came to Christ, the trust in his authority over me as something good and not inherently dangerous or scary was a huge river to cross. I valued so much people who would tell me the truth and be plain and not bend things to be what they thought I wanted to hear. Honesty felt like respect. The lies I was living in were full of death. And hearing the church echo these "for my sake" and call them love was disorienting and scary. And yet, all this time later, false teachers are a siren call in my life. I am continuously pulled to listen to them. I tell myself that it's for the sake of "understanding" - of tracking with this moment in time and what my community is hearing. But the reality is - it's a false peace that I can feel drunk on. And I know it's not neutral when I drink this in. I feel lost at sea sometimes as I see believers I might trust make room at the table. I need a rope to grab onto on a hard day, not bigger waves crashing at me. I am grieved (immensely grieved) at the following that these false teachers have - the sheer scope of their influence. But that's small compared to the way I wince when I see someone like Lucado throw his name behind them. (And to think of this as "love" or kindness!!) It means the world to see someone be able & willing to hold a line and say hard truths. I am so grateful. And last - If my persecuted brothers and sisters can die for his Name, I can certainly die to myself in areas of identity or what I feel entitled to. Lord I want a church that's willing to tell me that. Thank you for being brave and being trustworthy. I don't have words for the gratitude I have.

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Larry D Hampton
11/30/2021 07:38:08 am

Many of these comments verify the point you made about our unwillingness to stand for the truth at any cost. Jesus did not hesitate to condemn the religious leaders of His day for their departure from the truth. He would not fit in well with today's leaders who do not want to offend anyone.

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Brenda Seals
6/28/2022 08:01:34 pm

I am a little surprised some of these pastors are talking about these issues. I thinks it’s a no win for them because how far left progressive Christian’s are. believe that most pastors today deal in numbers—how many members do they have, how many people tithe and how much, how many people are listening to my podcast, how many people are watching my mega church show on tv, how many people are buying my books. It all boils down to numbers which means $$$. For that reason a lot of pastors have stayed away from issues like abortion and homosexuality. The country is so divided and they don’t want to lose members, listeners, tithers and book sales. They risk losing those who don’t agree. But most of these mega pastors will speak out because they’ve already made a lot of $$ and aren’t afraid to say they have crossed over to the progressive side. Maybe they were always liberal/progressive but didn’t state it for reasons above.

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